Are bare breasts nudity?

2005-09-29 [Lioness123]: OMG, can't you people go one day without arguing about something? Every time I get on elftown, its like seeing kids bickering.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Some people give a shit. It just doesn't give them athority over how people who don't run their lives.

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: Chrisitains get everywhere....it can't be helped....there just there...no sane person gives a shit about the bible!

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Lioness, if you don't like it, don't get invoved. I for one do.

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: SO UP YOURS!!

2005-09-29 [rockntori]: by the way....its "christians"...and those are people who care about the bible. but MOST of us here...just want to live our friggin lives and have an opinion without you waving the bible pages in our face....dosent anyone agree with me?

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: HELL YEAH!!!

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Come now Captain, the bible has some good stuff in it. However most Christains don't bother contiplating it, they just belive what the last person told them.

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: Please...the bible is about as useful as a chocalate teapot...It's full of crap!

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Have you read it?

2005-09-29 [T_Pop]: ok... let me ask one more question befor i stop... if you say "no sane person gives a shit about the bible" [Angels Of San-Angelus] then why is it that in a comparison between you and me you are loosing your sanity and i have mantained mine over this whole time... im not the one willing to jump down peoples throughts just becouse thay dont think the way i do... i actuoly am willing to have a desent discution with you the best i can... so tell me why this is??

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Oh, no captain! He/she's got you there!

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: GO SCREW A GOAT...I FUCKIN' HATE YOUR SORT.....AND YES...I HAVE READ IT...I GO TO A MILITARY NAVAL SCHOOL SO WE KINA HAVE TO KNOW SOME OF IT.....I'M PERFECTLY SANE I'M JUST NOT A LITTLE DWEEB!

2005-09-29 [T_Pop]: aer you now??

2005-09-29 [zip]: Bible verses are proof of nothing, by the way T_pop, where will all the new christians come from if nobody has children?

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: So why don't ya go get a girlfriend ya little prick and get some real human contact!

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: Exactly....christianity will die out...wait a minute.....that's not on the whole a bad idea!

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: At last!

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Christainity, in general, is only against sex outside of marage.

2005-09-29 [MelissaChristine]: goodness...

2005-09-29 [rockntori]: christianity wont die out because most christians dont believe in abortion...or birth controll. sorry captain

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: They don't even let teenage girls use protection....it's sickening!

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: So, captin are you saying that doing unto other has you would have done to yourself is shit?

2005-09-29 [Nicolaia Carpathian Queen]: I think there is a difference in breasts and porn....The human body is beautiful but porn is gross mostly.

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: Even if they are raped they have to have the baby!

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: Just so there can be more little christians running about to power the religion!

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: I say: if people wanna show there boobs and kids wanna look at them...then so be it...it's up too them....

2005-09-29 [T_Pop]: did i say that we should never have sex??? we should have sex with owr sagnificant other... we shouldnt brood over it most of owr lives that alone is unhealthy for youe... this is speaking in a psyceatric opinion along with a cristion one... the fact that i dont have a GF has varry little to do with this conversation but if you must know it is varry hard to keep friends let alone a girlfriend with the amount of moving i have been going through (my dad works for the air force and i am unforchantly a military brat)

2005-09-29 [Nicolaia Carpathian Queen]: That's catholics....Catholics donot as a general rule believe in birth control

2005-09-29 [MelissaChristine]: I think that everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion and should not be criticized for it...a lot of people trusted in a half naked guy that sat under a tree the whole time and some even believe drinking coolaid will grant their way into heaven...we have freedom of religion in this country for a reason and no one should be criticized my best friend is pagan and I am a christian therefore we just don't talk about religion...

2005-09-29 [MelissaChristine]: what do you mean by let teenage girls use prtection?

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: Well i'm not a military brat....i'm just military...i think it's fuckin' disgustin' how that happens and if i ever see a teenage christan pregnant and i give them advice it would be this: If you want the baby keep it...if you don't...then abort it....but don't do what you don't wanna do just cos your religion says you have to...after all...isn't your religion about freedom anyway!

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: And MC, are beleifs that nudity is wrong completely religious?

2005-09-29 [T_Pop]: of cores you will say that... thats becouse your under age captain... i took the liberty to look at your home page

2005-09-29 [MelissaChristine]: I am a teeage christian...and my church has done nothing but understand I am a teenager and that teenagers make mistakes and if I even thought about aborting her then they would all slap some sense in me

2005-09-29 [BlackDragon]: I thought Elftwon was an art and fantasy community.. I guess things have changed a lot. And showing your breasts is nudity, but not porn. If people start shwoing their breasts here on Elftown, I will stop looking at peoples houses, since my parents will definatly wonder what I'm doing.. 

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Does that mean that he is not intitled to his oppion?

2005-09-29 [rockntori]: christians too...for example my dads girlfrien's sister started having kids at 14. she now has 11 kids. and is most likely preganant again. she dosent believe in birth control and shes christian....i feel bad for her husband...

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: Just cos i'm underaged dosn't mean i don't know what i'm on about....i will say what i won't too...and i beleive i am right....and it's people like you that get my blood boiling...what has my age got to do with this anyway!!??

2005-09-29 [MelissaChristine]: no it's not completely religious...nudity in itself is not wrong...if people want to use it in drawings and sculptures and other ways of showing artistic ability then there is nothing wrong with it...porn on the other hand is a different story...it's not art it's a bunch of perves getting together to watch people screw

2005-09-29 [~Brigid~]: Not all christian religions are against birth control.

2005-09-29 [MelissaChristine]: I don't think age has much to do with anything as long as you're standing behind your word...but an opinion is something that is your's and not something you drill into other people...but I really don't know what's going on...I just got here

2005-09-29 [zip]: "underage" is relative, everyone living today should be old enough to see a naked body without any negative reaction. Porn should not be allowd on ET, nudity should. Sidetracking to talk about what the bible does or does not say and wether or not abortion is just a waste of effort.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: And why, MC, is that wrong?

2005-09-29 [rockntori]: i didnt say all. i said some

2005-09-29 [MelissaChristine]: most houses have posted at the top whether it contains nudity if you don't believe in it then don't view the house it is very simple...

2005-09-29 [T_Pop]: people like me??? what did i do patell to "get your blood boiling"??? all i have done was state my oppinion which apears to be diffrent from yours

2005-09-29 [MelissaChristine]: is which part wrong?

2005-09-29 [Heartless Hooligans]: My, my, there sure is a lot of hostility here. I would like to know, however, how is it that this pole was designed to judge the mater of bare breasts and miners and you are all arguing about the relevance of the bible. ? I think you’ve gotten just a wee bit off track with the bible argument. I don’t personally believe that the bible should have any sway over this issue considering not every one “Gives a shit about the bible”, but more importantly not every one believes in it. The only thing that should govern the decision is people’s moral judgment about the issue, whether or not that is derived from the bible, their own sense of morality, or some other morel indication.

2005-09-29 [MelissaChristine]: everyone is just very criticizing of other's beliefs

2005-09-29 [Heartless Hooligans]: I personally have no problem with any nude art, whether it be breasts or genitals but I do believe that if genitals are considered inappropriate for under age members than so should bare breasts. If nudity is the issue here, than all nudity should be accounted for; breasts genitals and butts. I’ve said my piece, now I leave you to have some fun else were.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: MC: Why is it wrong for a bunch of "pervs" to watch each other screw?

2005-09-29 [T_Pop]: i guess the true question we should be asking is... where do we draw the line as a diffrence between porn and nudity?

2005-09-29 [MelissaChristine]: I completely agree with you Fix Fire...I have to admit I also got in this arguement a little late...

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Through critisism come improvement.

2005-09-29 [deathtothytears]: It is nudity. is there a huge problem with nudity?? no.. its the human body. but fact is fact, and breasts are in fact nudity.

2005-09-29 [rockntori]: T_POP most of the time your not posting your opinion...your posting "gods opinion".

2005-09-29 [MelissaChristine]: the only thing wrong with that is this is a public website that is something that is done in the privacy of your own home or bedroom...whichever you prefer I guess

2005-09-29 [Heartless Hooligans]: Because That can be done ells were.

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: Yeah...so stop givin' it us from the mouth of god!

2005-09-29 [Heartless Hooligans]: this is a place for Art, if art contains nudity, so be it, but for this place to contain nudity just for nudity, it becomes a porn site.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: The difference between nudity and porn is the difference between what one wants to see and what one considers distasteful

2005-09-29 [Heartless Hooligans]: And if deathtothytears: moral bilefes come from good, so what, their still her/ his bilefs mine are based of of my own spiritual code of morality.

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: Porn is in the eye of the beholder!

2005-09-29 [rockntori]: and by the way T pop i "took the liberty of looking at your profile" too. and it dosent seem like your very religious and following the bible. or why yould you have posted this in your profile?

2005-09-29 [zip]: There is no debate as to wether are not showing breasts is nudity, of course it is. Breasts however are not sexual, unlike genitals which have a clear sexual purpose. However, even though most people consider breasts to be sexual, what is wrong with them appearing in art/photographs on this site? Why should we even be having this discussion? Nobody on this site has been harmed by seeing a breast, or even two breasts.

2005-09-29 [rockntori]: 1-- thou shall not sneak out when parents

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Fox Fire, can you say that again?

2005-09-29 [rockntori]: 2--thou shall not do drugz (alcohol last longer)

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: Zip my man....i'm beggining to like you more and more!

2005-09-29 [zip]: *deadbolts his door*

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Showing hands is also nudity. Just a thought

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: lol...not in that way Zip!

2005-09-29 [zip]: Yes, but it isn't considered erotic because most people always expose their hands. However when people catch sight of something normally covered(breasts, belly), it's somehow arousing because you don't normally see it.

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: Yeah...i see ya point!

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Very true. So the only reason that nudity of the breast is objectionable is because it is covered?

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: Yup...and that's why we moan...cos it's not usually seen....which is stupid!

2005-09-29 [zip]: Well, thats my theory anyway. If everyone walked around without a shirt, it would cease to be exciting.

2005-09-29 [T_Pop]: lmao hallarios... well i guess thats true... but if you look deeper then you will see more to me then that lol

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Nudity is objectionable because it is usally covered and it is usally covered because it is objectionable. It does seem that the principle is flying by pulling up on the set of it's own pants.

2005-09-29 [Ssapzyne Del'Armgo]: I think showing breats is ok, but there should be a warning so that people know that there will be art with breasts exposed so they don't get offended for any reason.

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: I SAY WE ALL GO NUDE!!! *strips off and runs about*

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: So there is nothing, by nature, wrong with nudity?

2005-09-29 [Ssapzyne Del'Armgo]: *shuts blinds on window* See! Not a problem if you're warned! lol.

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: *keeps runnin' round nude* WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP!!

2005-09-29 [zip]: In essence, for the people who do not wish to view nudity(artistic or not) there can be a site-enfornced nudity warning. And the people puttig it on their house and those viewing it still can. This way everyone still has freedom. If nudity were banned, then people who don't want to see it would be happy, but the other side would be completely out of luck.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: If so, and it is wrong to press laws based on something that can not be proven, should we allow nudity in society?

2005-09-29 [Ssapzyne Del'Armgo]: There is nothing wrong with nudity to an extent... but it all depends on the person in question to decided the limit to that extent

2005-09-29 [Saffron]: maybe the guys and the underaged should get a breast-block XD

2005-09-29 [Angels Of San-Angelus]: WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP!!!!! ((GOTTA GO))

2005-09-29 [Ssapzyne Del'Armgo]: Interesting concept...

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: So Ss D'A, if that is so and you are not comfortable with blue shirts, is it wrong for me to wear a blue shirt?

2005-09-29 [zip]: The problem with part of the populace believing nudity to be erotic and another part showing themselves is that it causes difficult misunderstandings. Another reason breasts are thought to be erotic also stems from the fact that they are normally covered, and when somebody exposes a part of ther significant other for example, that makes it special somehow because that is only for them to see. Or maybe i'm way off :P

2005-09-29 [Ssapzyne Del'Armgo]: *thinks* Technically, no. If I see you walking by in a blue shirt, I could look away if I want. I don't HAVE to look at it.But I don't think that as soon as you go on a website there should be a huge picture of a woman with exposed breasts.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: A) All things in society require communication. B) Nothing said here says that it is wrong for to chose to wear cloths.

2005-09-29 [zip]: Personally I'm not going to take topless photos of myself and put them on my house, and if I see someone elses house with near-porn photos I'll think "slut" and leave, but I still think they should have the freedom to put those photos up, and other people should have the freedom to view them.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: It seems that we have reached common ground. Now how do we apply this to Elftown?

2005-09-29 [Rondel]: As a female member, I can attest that I have no concern about my daughter seeing nude art, or even casual nudity among intimates. But, I *do* know, & *have* taught her, that public perception creates a risk for young people (& older, too, but especially adolescents & young adults) who expose "taboo" parts of themselves indiscriminately to strangers. As such, when my daughter sees "boobies" here on Elftown, her first thoughts, like my own, are "if it's not art-related, why are they showing this here, given that this isn't a cybersex site, & they can be assured that a high percentage of members will perceive the images in that light", & "that girl is doing something risky, I worry for her".

2005-09-29 [.swansong for a raven.]: wpwoooooooo hooooooooooooobooobs

2005-09-29 [Ssapzyne Del'Armgo]: You would have to interpret it into an artistic form... what's going to be hard is how far that will go. For example, The Sistine chappel has nudity, but that IS a great work of art and no one considers it pornographic

2005-09-29 [kjjkhkj]: I think breasts should be allowed, but only as artwork. Posting a random picture of your breasts just turns you into an object of lust for all the pervs out there. P.S why would someone get offended by seeing breasts? They're perfectly natural. Every second person in the world has them....in fact, more than that, look at sumo wrestlers.

2005-09-29 [T_Pop]: so i bring up the question agean... where do we draw the line??? in elftown i can understand art after all this is the place to put up your art and writings, but if there is no line to be drawn like say between art and pics then whats the point of elftown if only to turn it into a sex site??

2005-09-29 [Gone123456789]: I think that putting up anything other than artistic nudity is uncalled for in a place like Elftown. Already, newbers are taking over Elftown, breaking all the rules & being totally inconsiderate towards others on here. And that's not what Elftown was made for. I think if you come to Elftown, you should have a creative level to you, and you should use it. If breasts become a casuallity around Elftown, how many more newbers is it going to attract? I mean, I've bet my left ear that most of the guys voted for (d) or (e). And that's because most guys are perverts. Sorry to say it. And most Newbers who have names like [satan rulez] & [porn addict] are going to take advantage of those pictures.

2005-09-29 [Rondel]: In short, if the poll were "should bare-breasted images have a warning, distinct from the nudity warning", I'd vote yes, because I think that deals with a large part of the problem. But the wording of this poll is not one I can vote on, because I don't agree with any of the answers, and/or do not consider them relevant to Elftown.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: It think the warnings are the way to go. Maybe we should make it so people can put warnings on their own houses.

2005-09-29 [Ssapzyne Del'Armgo]: Very true. A lot of the kids who have started to come here are perverts looking to cyber. I'm young, but I come here because I like art, writing, and fantasy roleplaying.

2005-09-29 [Gone123456789]: (I'd liek to clear up that I said MOST guys, not all guys. A lot of guys are mature about this idea. But more guys are just going by their genitals than guys going by mature levels.)

2005-09-29 [Ssapzyne Del'Armgo]: I agree with [Vesthrix], that exposing pictures should have a warning with them, but can be allowed

2005-09-29 [Velvet Muzzle]: It would depend on the context the boobs are being shown. If it's supposed to a sexual situation, it's nudity. If it's artistic who are we to infringe on their ability to express their art? The fine lines stands between whore vs un-whore. Those people are clearly and easily labelled.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Accio, why is that wrong?

2005-09-29 [Gone123456789]: Well, if this does pass, then yes, I'd vote for the warning label. That way, it'd maintain some dignity because if one scrolls down and the breasts are there, then one can claim they didn't know it was on there. But if the warning is there, they cannot claim that.

2005-09-29 [Shadow Flame]: who cares

2005-09-29 [Gone123456789]: It's not wrong persay. But I think it would draw the immature people to Elftown and drive the conservative artists away.

2005-09-29 [Rondel]: Also, I'd have to say that I think breasts HAVE ALREADY become a casual/common occurrence on Elftown, and not in a wholesome context such as breast-feeding or artistry (including photographic artistry, let me be VERY clear about that) -- rather, it's the plethora of underage girls showing "look, I've hit puberty" pictures that bothers me. I'm also concerned because I'm only just now becoming aware of the problem with the theft of such images for the purpose of using them here, by individuals who then claim that they are either the person in the picture, or the person who took it. That kind of thing is GOING to grow if Elftown makes itself a haven for the cyberers. 

2005-09-29 [Wishing pool]: well iguess u have a piont [Gone123456789] that'l stop some lawsiuts any way

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: But there is already a rule against theft. We just need to find a way to inforce it.

2005-09-29 [Gone123456789]: I absolutly agree with you. Bare breasts are nudity, no matter what. But if an artist carefully takes the idea and molds it, it's alright. But full out GIRLS GONE WILD type pictures just should not be allowed on Elftown. How offensive would that be to anyone who has been here a great while and actually appreciates Elftown for it's artistry to see those pictures just popping up all over?

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: What are the laws in Sweden or where every Elfron actually is?

2005-09-29 [Rondel]: And I still say that having "big breasted" as a body shape description (or having "body shape" AT ALL) on the standard bio form is a part of the problem. It sets the tone, particularly in combination with the settings for sexual orientation & relationship status - given that the latter does not encompass merely "single, married, widowed, divorced, engaged, involved", but also "married but still looking", or what have you. Those three bio items, taken together, set a tone that says "ET is a place where you can search for your body type of choice in a person of your preferred gender & orientation, who is open to a relationship". AND THEY'RE ALMOST COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO AN ART COMMUNITY.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Accio, you should read some of the comments around #35.

2005-09-29 [T_Pop]: well i can agree with art but putting nude pics just to put them up is (i beleave) agenst the rules somewhere right. art i have no say and would want no say over but nude pics are a diffrent matter compleatly... i've been on elftown for about a year now but its supposed to be like [Ssapzyne Del'Armgo] said it was supposed to be about art, writing, and fantisy roleplaying... not porn and nude pics... after all we do have meny members who are under 18 and we should try to limit the real pics the best we can... if nothing else at least for them

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Rondel, you have a good point there. I hope some on offical reads this.

2005-09-29 [lil-dead]: I personaly agree with Rondel.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: T_Pop, why do minors need to have nudity cencered. We have established that seeing nudity doesn't do any harm.

2005-09-29 [Mémoire]: Look, I have nothing against nudity, it is nature and beauty, but what I truely detest, is woman showing their breasts to impress men. How can those women ever expect to be treaten as the equal of men if they act like that? Like they are lust-objects? That is my only objection against female nudity.. In art, it is only beauty..

2005-09-29 [Gone123456789]: Well, all I can say is that if this passes then I will be one to say "Gosh, I miss the old Elftown. You know, the one where we could randomly click people's pages and not see discriminating pictures?" And I know a few people who would be right along with me. It was nice talking to you all.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Do you also have a problem with men buffing up in gyms to impress women? All atractive people are subject to being lust after. That doesn't mean that they can be treated as equals.

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: I wished I been there in those days... yay, I should be going too.

2005-09-29 [Oh! Its a Riot xx]: i think it all depends on how the breasts are being shown . cuz posting random half naked pictures of your self is wrong . plus . wouldnt it just be like kiddy porn ?

2005-09-29 [Mémoire]: Yes, men buffing up in gyms are not my favorite kind of men either. But still, men are still seen as more intelligent, etcetera, than women, and woman will not prove the opposite by giving the impression that they are only interested in sexuality. Which counts for men too, ofcourse. And Accio, indeed, that must have been a relief..

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: One last time before I go. Tell us, why is it wrong? Why is porn wrong?

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: Ok, I sware I'm leaving after this: Memoire why not work to eliminate the belief rather then the practice? If you take away the belief, there is nothing wrong with being attractive.

2005-09-29 [Mémoire]: Ofcourse there is nothing wrong with being attractive. Beauty is everywhere. But turning yourself into an object of lust, that is what I don't understand.. Why is porn wrong.. I never said it was wrong, I have no need to see it on here, but if people want to exhibit their bodies, they can. But then again.. Are there no more important things to show about one's self..?

2005-09-29 [Vesthrix]: indeed, good-bye now.

2005-09-29 [Oh! Its a Riot xx]: OK OK .. Porn is wrong to some people . not others .It all depends on the persons morals .. Either way it should be left off here . there are PLENTY of sites online that people can go to if they want to see porn . Yes, I understand that this is a art site . and that some nudity is art . This poll wasnt to specific on how they meant breasts. In my opinion art form is ok . but the rest isnt .. Whats going to stop kids like 13 or 14 from putting pics of them up here ? . This poll said womans breasts .. whats to draw the line for what a woman is ? .. Theres just to many questions needed to be answered first .

2005-09-29 [Mémoire]: Yes I certainly agree with you on that.. It's rather vague, this poll..

2005-09-29 [T_Pop]: well [Vesthrix] the thing is that i could tell you why its wrong but more often then not i am disregarded as an idiot who has no idea what im talking about just becouse thay dont like what thay hear... if you really want to know then i will message it to you but its a little long of an explanation to post here... sorry about that

2005-09-29 [BarleySinger]: * Pornography (unless you live in Iran or someplace like that, where artists have to leave the country to persure their profession) is not defined as just "nudity". It is defined as nuditiy that is explicitly and gratuitously sexual in nature with no artistic merit. There are three main catagories : nude art, erotic art, and porn - with some crossover between the three at the edges. * Are nude/semi-nude images of underaged girls automatically porn? Probably not. There are a lot of classic pieces of art that depict girls under 18, who have hit puberty, who were nude or semi nude. However, those pieces of art depict people who are not doing sexual things but more ....

2005-09-29 [Averon]: Ok everyone take one step back here. Isn't the elftown population mostly guys?? Lets for a second assume soo.. And well that would explain the poll results now wouldn't it?

2005-09-29 [T_Pop]: ya but the peaces where painted right... someone didnt just take a photo of them right??

2005-09-29 [BarleySinger]: importantly they are images of people who are dead, and cannot be put in danger by those images; cannot be groomed by some social misfit or some dangerous stalker who fixates on them and then gets them to run off with them to California. Highly revealing, or even very sexually provocative images of underaged people can put that person at risk. Teenagers are already at a risky time in their lives in which they are coming of age sexualy, and they need to do that "coming of age" safely with people who are their own age...as "love with training wheels"...ONLY with people where there is no usery and no power imbalance involved.

2005-09-29 [DietCOKE;;Phiz]: I thought there was mostly girls instead of guys. -shrugs-

2005-09-29 [Mémoire]: Look.. Nudity is beauty, is art, is.. is just life in its purest form. And so, I don't mind nudity, but porn.. Or even just get in touch with people just with one's breasts.. There are plenty of places for that on the net.. Which I regret to be honest (in this way of so called 'porn').. Wasn't this supposed to be an art site..

2005-09-29 [Mémoire]: And no matter if there are mostly girls are guys.. Some girls find it perfectly normal to be some kind of "porn stars" on an art site.. to meet new people.. And guys, well.. Some of them don't mind that either..

2005-09-29 [BarleySinger]: As for phographs vs paintings - Many of the classical pieces I am talking about were "painted" because photography did not exist yet as an art form, and they were created using techniques that used specials lighting and mirrors and lenses to cast a perfect image of the person on the canvas so that the lines of the person (the whole painting really) could be drawn in prefectly...just like a photograph is done today. Most people do not know that these techniques were one of the majoy breakthroughs that allowed art to drastically increase in its realism during the Renasance. It was the availability of lenses that made the difference.

2005-09-29 [geekinpink]: Is there anyone who objects to mandatory warnings for profiles with bare breasts?

2005-09-29 [T_Pop]: if you want to be perfictly honest yes... but then agean most things in today can be considerd art... dog crap can be considerd art, the atom bom, a car crash, a fire, if we just say that these things are art then there would be no point to haveing any rules on elftown right... anyone anywhere can take whatever pictur thay want and put it up here and call it art... now stop me if im crossing a line but shouldnt we try to limit that... if you can draw fire, or a car crash, or even the atom bom exploding then yes we must all marvle at your talents no mater how gory or what not it may be but shouldnt we put a limit on the pucturs that are put up?? (not the drawings but the live pucturs)

2005-09-29 [BarleySinger]: As for breasts ... everybody has them. They are just modified sweat glands, which on female mammals can that produce milk (so that infants have a way of getting food). Yes, they are an indication of gender, and of sexual maturity and so they can be viewed in a sexual way by people but that is mostly a matter of the way that the people in a given culture tend to dress and to view nude bodies and the connection between nudity and sexuality (if they make any connection at all). Not everybody make a connection between the two. No everybody in the world wears clothing, or wears clothing that constantly covers their upper body. Go to the beach in Brazil and there are topless women and

2005-09-29 [Mémoire]: Profiles with bare breasts in them, or profiles with photos of a girl's/woman's bare breasts..? And how far can you go in this.. Breasts are just a part of the female body, should we then not warn for male nudity also..? What a difficult subject this is.

2005-09-29 [BarleySinger]: naked people all over the place. Nobody cares. This is mostly a matter of what people are used to seeing and what the dominant religion in the west says is bad. What I would like to see myself are a few sinple rules. ** no porn or course** no nude/seminude photos of underaged people (due to the danger to the person in the photo and due to the law) ** photographic nudity (even just breasts) should be resticted to Wikis only ** other media nudity could be on a house page. *** the thing I think that contributes the most to the problems with sexuality on elftown is the stuff

2005-09-29 [Nekko fox]: Truthfully, it's all a matter of taste. If it's just a girl standfing there in a sexy pose like some playboy model, then it is different than a girl posing for the sake of art.

2005-09-29 [Kuruni]: i dont get why breasts are considered sexual parts of the body, they are made to feed babies, just like cows and any other mammal.                    BUT, that's the way it is. We cannot change the minds of almost 6 billions of people, but we could try and start right now.  If a girl uses her breasts as a sexual thing on a picture, there will be problems, i think i dont like whores showing almost everything here in Elftown, but drawings and such shouldn't be a problem.

2005-09-29 [BarleySinger]: in the profile about body type and sexual preference and Civil status. None of that stuff is about art. It makes people think that the point of the site is "hooking up"...to find people who are interested in cybering or even hooking up in the "meat world" (very dangerous). It also makes it VERY easy for a person to do searches for people who are say....bisexual big breasted girls who are 13 years old....you know....the type of people that a "groomer predator" wants to find due to the image in their mind of what that means. I think that given how important classical training in drawing nudes (or actual real art photos if that is your gifted area) is in art...

2005-09-29 [jackoffasaur]: i believe that the issue pornography is addressed rather succinctly with the answer "i want to see a lot of them" do you not agree?

2005-09-29 [BarleySinger]: that banning the nude, or even just the breast would be very bad for the artistic development of the people on the site. The human nude form is a basic part of EVERY serious art schools curricculum. It is an important part of both historic and current art. So are the study of musculature, anatomy, color, light and shadow and perspecive (etc). I do think that there should be limitations though. I wish we lived in a world where people didn't think that nudity=sex but we don't. I hate wearing clothes in the heat of the summer (in and outside) and so do other family members of both genders. I also wish we lived in a world where it was safe to do paintings and photos of adolescents of both

2005-09-29 [BarleySinger]: of both genders, as the developing human body can be amazingly esthetically beautiful...and teens deserve to know what looks normal...but we live in this world, where people have been taught bad ideas, and some people (usually very damaged people) prey on others. In this world, far too many people have had several thousand years of cultural training to view nudity as wrong, and even as an invitation to sex. Oh well. So is life.

2005-09-29 [Mom]: I'm lost...are we discussing viewing womens breast as used in art (Example...a drawing...a painting) or are we discussing 11 thru 15 year old girls that are on ET to do everything but art...or music...or write.

2005-09-29 [Mom]: ET is no place for internet fornication...or the solicting of it.

2005-09-29 [Shade's Cabin]: Nudity in itself is part of art. The human body, male of female is a beautiful thing in every way. What makes it inappropriate is how you depict it. Crude acts involving characters with or without clothes are not done for their artistic merit or to display beauty and should not be allowed... but a single figure with little or no clothes can be a beautiful thing.

2005-09-29 [Mom]: Nude art is art....15 year olds with their boobs showing saying Hi my name is Too Hot To Handle isn't.....Sorry .

2005-09-29 [Mom]: I do nudes...I display nudes....but I am not putting myself on display and advertising which is what is happening here.I was told off the other day and called a sex pervert ...accused of hanging out in a teen chat room. I wonder how this person got the idea this was a teen chat room...uh???

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: Isnt elfpack a place for "hooking up"? so why doesnt everybody who insists on putting thier body parts in pictures go there? or some other website?

2005-09-29 [I'm gone gone gone]: I think "art" that is either painted, or drawn would be fine... however, real pictures of girls under 18 need to be banned. I believe that et could even get in trouble for it. I don't care if the girls themselves want to expose themselves, that is to be done in private or during their own time, NOT on the internet! Sorry, just my opinion...

2005-09-29 [Mom]: Enough already...just because something is nude doesn't make it art.

2005-09-29 [Sir. Robert]: Though I have never seen problems with artistic nudity in drawings/paintings, elftown is not an approprate place to display women with bare brests...

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: Right. (to both [Mom] and [Sir.Robert]

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: I say if someone wants to indulge themselves with looking at women's breasts then they should go to a site that is made specificaly for that purpose. Last time i checked ET is a place for RPers and artists, of course authors too.

2005-09-29 [geekinpink]: For the women saying they don't understand why breasts are associated with sex, please shut the hell up until you learn how guys think. It's obvious this is about how said topic affects boys/men.

2005-09-29 [Daemeon Arkenyon Zane]: just give up and show em... theyre going to anyway, might as well make it "legal"....besides, a womans breasts were given to her to be shown if she wants to...and if you think about it, if a man can, and a woman cant, that could be construed as sexist

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: No argument here. Thats why I think they should go elsewhere.[this was a response to [GeekinPink]]

2005-09-29 [Mr. Gentleman]: Hmm... This is quite the situation you have... If the underage girls are showing their breasts, then that can be considered child porn, which is very illegal. However, then again, who are we to ban people from doing what they want? And also, they're a LOT of teengers on this site, so it would also be f ree underage peep show... I would say 18 and older is okay, but teenagers are off-limits. And also, photos containing nudity should have a warning on them, for the underage. If they're under eighteen, you need to find a way to block the pictures from showing on people who's profile says under 18. However, I believe artwork, such as drawings and portraits, shouldn't be banned, seeing as how

2005-09-29 [Sir. Robert]: Personally I would rather see a nicely drawn picture than a woman with her shirt off...

2005-09-29 [Mr. Gentleman]: Some of the best art in life is nudity. Look at the paintings of Athena; Michelangelo's David; countless others. Gaaahhh.... It's such a hard topic...

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: to be honest... i'll look if its there but i dont want to see underage porn, thats why we should block it all together to keep those few from getting ET sued or something.

2005-09-29 [Sir. Robert]: True...but those are paintings not a snapshot done with a webcam

2005-09-29 [Tanyanized]: that aint right yo!

2005-09-29 [Mom]: I miss all the talent that use to be here...I never met so many artistic people as I have on ET. All were will to share and help anyone who asked.Most are gone now...what a shame.I see new talent coming everyday and I hope they can find inspiration like I have here...it is most unlikely though.

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: yes, but there will always be somebody trying to break the rules, plus if somebody is really looking for a peep show they can just google away...

2005-09-29 [Sir. Robert]: I wonder if anyone has consitered just re-starting elftown

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: so, there is no need for web cam nudy shots on this site.

2005-09-29 [hanhepi]: i dissagree with having a warning on every picture with a boob in it. that just makes people want to look.

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: re-starting ET? all that work would be lost!!!

2005-09-29 [Mom]: It doesn't make people want to look...an artist isn't going to look just because its a boob...the hormonal raging 12 year old is.

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: heh heh...kinda know how that is...

2005-09-29 [Sir. Robert]: I dont think anyone would ever consiter doing it...but maybe et could split or something

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: there are multiple "clones" of elftown already such as Elfpack, Cathug, and some russian one i cant type.

2005-09-29 [Mom]: I guess what I am trying to say...if the picture,drawing,whatever is meant honestly to be art it's a nudity that all should be able to see. Nudity(Breast) meant with other intentions should be banned.

2005-09-29 [Sir. Robert]: I agree [Mom] ...but the only problem is making up the fine print that goes along with the decision to ban or not

2005-09-29 [Mom]: Enough soap boxing for me....Thank you for listening.

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: it was a pleasure to listen.

2005-09-29 [Sir. Robert]: LOL...I guess we'll leave your soap box here if you want to return

2005-09-29 [Mr. Gentleman]: You know.... I've never understod that. Why can't teens control their hormones? Being one, I've often wondered that... Call ne old-fashioned, but if there was a girl showing her boobs, I'd prefer a filter. As for restarting elftown... first, you would have to tell all the people to save backups and re-submit all the artistic stuff. It would be a hassle, but when something's necessary enough... on the other hand... most people wouldn't be up to it.

2005-09-29 [I'm gone gone gone]: I agree with [Mom] too...

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: to be honest (yet again) i find the eyes of a woman (and the face too) to be more attractive. ( im not saying i dont like breasts, those are nice, but only if it is being shared between two people who love eachother)

2005-09-29 [I'm gone gone gone]: Wow, finally someone mature. *hugs Guardian lightly* I bet your girlfriend feels very lucky :)

2005-09-29 [Guardian of Light]: wish i could get one...

2005-09-29 [Mom]: [Mr. Gentleman]..It's like learning to drive. You just need more experience. Until then you'll have a few fender benders and a few tickets. LOL

2005-09-29 [Sir. Robert]: A smile is worth a lot more to me than seeing someone not wearing a shirt...

2005-09-29 [Mom]: =}

2005-09-29 [Sir. Robert]: hehe...thanks [Mom]